Welcome to Rec.Gambling.*!
This is the Welcome section of the rec.gambling.misc
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list.
Changes or additions to this section of the FAQ should
be submitted to: firstname.lastname@example.org.
Page last modified: 9-03-95
Table of Contents
Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling.*!
- W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
- W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling.*?
Section I: Information Sources
- I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ list?
- I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
- I3 Where is the gambling archive?
- I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
- I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
- I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?
Section H: History of Rec.Gambling
- H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
- H2 What is WRGPT?
- H3 What is BARGE?
- H4 What is IRC Poker?
Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling!
Rec.gambling was originally a single newsgroup, but has now been
split into several different groups in order to allow readers to
more easily focus their attention on specific topics. Although
rec.gambling has been superceded by these new groups, it is likely
that the term "rec.gambling" will live on to refer to these groups
as a whole, especially in connection with such activities as WRGPT
These newsgroups are devoted to discussion of all forms of gambling and
wagering, and the gaming industry. If you are new to rec.gambling,
or you have not read this message previously, please take a few
moments to read this message, since it may help you to find many
different sources of information on gambling.
- Q:W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
- A:W1 (Steve Jacobs)
The purposes of this message are:
- To provide guidelines for posting to rec.gambling.*
- To help you find the latest versions of the rec.gambling.*
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) lists, which should be
read before posting questions to rec.gambling.* newsgroups.
- To help you find other sources of information about gambling,
such as the rec.gambling archive and the World Wide Web home
page for rec.gambling.
- To provide some of the history of rec.gambling, and the various
events associated with the newsgroups, including:
- WRGPT (World Rec.Gambling.Poker Tournament)
- BARGE (Big Annual Rec.Gambling Excursion)
- IRC Poker (online poker games against live opponents)
If you have not already done so, we would strongly urge all readers
of rec.gambling.* (especially those who are new to USENET) to review
the material in the group news.announce.newusers. Although this group
is primarily intended for new users, it would be a good idea for
anyone who posts messages to USENET newsgroups to review this material
periodically. Guidelines which generally apply to USENET newsgroups
will also apply to rec.gambling.*.
- Q:W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling.*?
- A:W2 (Steve Jacobs)
Use appropriate subject lines in order to target your message to those
who are most interested. Whenever practical, try to include one of the
following keywords (or something similar) in the "Subject:" line in
order to make it easier for readers who are only interested in one or
POKER BLACKJACK VIDEO POKER CRAPS ROULETTE
SLOTS LOTTERY RACES PONIES DRIVEL
A few points of netiquette to keep in mind before posting to
Before posting, consider whether your post will be of general
interest to the group. If your message is primarily targeted
to one or two individuals, then use email instead.
Appropriate topics for these groups: Gambling and wagering in all
forms. Although the groups tend to focus heavily on games which
permit the player to gain an advantage over the house, many games
which are "unbeatable" are discussed here as well. Trip reports
from recent visits to casinos are also welcome, and enjoyed by many
readers (especially those who are unable to get to the casinos as
often as they might like). Discussions often include some heavy
mathematical analysis as it relates to gambling (especially
combinatorics, probability/statistics, and game theory), and results
of computer analysis and/or simulation of specific games.
Try to stay on topic as much as possible. If the discussion strays
to non-gambling topics, please consider moving the topic to a more
appropriate forum or to email. An occasional stray discussion is OK,
just don't get carried away.
Before posting, check the FAQ to see if your question is already
answered there. If you are unwilling (or too lazy) to check the
FAQ first, then don't be surprised if the only answer you receive
is "see the FAQ".
It is a good idea to read the entire FAQ at least once (even if you
don't have specific questions), and to "lurk" for a while before
posting to the groups. If you are just stopping by to sell something,
don't bother -- we've seen the "MAKE MONEY FAST" post and other scams
before, and we don't appreciate them. We're primarily here for
discussion of gambling topics, so if you won't be around to hold up
your end of the discussion, then it is very unlikely that your post
is appropriate for this group. Messages of the form "gambling is
evil/stupid/unhealthy" are completely unwelcome here.
If there is any question about the legality of your message, then
you probably shouldn't post it. Although it is perfectly OK to
talk about gambling here, we cannot actually _gamble_ here, and
we cannot post messages which could be construed as assisting
someone to perform wagering services of any kind.
Advertisements are generally not welcome in USENET newsgroups,
and rec.gambling is no exception. If you have something to sell,
please use the appropriate .forsale newsgroup instead. However,
some leeway may be permitted for software and books that are
gambling related, especially if special discounts are offered to
the rec.gambling community. Long ads are simply not appropriate.
Frequent posting of ads is also not appropriate -- once a month is
Section I: Information Sources
The FAQ files are posted to the specific group for the FAQ file
(such as rec.gambling.craps for the Craps FAQ) as well as to
rec.gambling.misc. These posts are made regularly, usually once every
three weeks. This welcome message is actually part of the FAQ for
rec.gambling.*, but the welcome message is posted once each week in order
to provide a convenient starting point for new readers, and to avoid posts
by people who are looking for the FAQ.
- Q:I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ lists.
- A:I1 (Steve Jacobs)
The multiple posted (ASCII) parts of the FAQ are archived at rtfm.mit.edu
(220.127.116.11) in the directory /pub/usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq. The
files are: welcome, general, casinos, blackjack, poker, craps, sports,
and misc. To obtain the files, first try ftp to
rtfm.mit.edu and look
under that directory. If ftp does not work from your site, then try the
in the body of the message (leave the subject line empty). If you
don't want all of them, include only the lines of the ones you want.
You must repeat the path information for each file.
- send email to email@example.com with
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/welcome
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/general
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/casinos
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/blackjack
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/poker
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/craps
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/sports
- send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/other-games
The ASCII versions of the FAQ are also available from
in the directory pub/faq.
- Q:I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
- A:I2 (Steve Jacobs)
Chuck Weinstock has created HTML versions of all sections of the
rec.gambling FAQ, and made them available at ConJelCo. The latest
versions of these FAQ lists may be obtained via the World Wide Web at:
- Rec.gambling FAQ http://www.conjelco.com/faq/
- The following sites may also be of interest to gamblers:
- Atlantic City http://pluto.njcc.com/~lemke/ac/ac.html
- ConJelCo Home Page http://www.conjelco.com/
- Foxwoods Maillist Homepage http://www.tc.cornell.edu/~jeg/r.g/fox/fox.html
- Las Vegas Advisor http://www.infi.net/vegas/lva/
- Las Vegas Online http://www.intermind.net/las.vegas.on-line/homepage.html
- Maryland Casinos http://www.jaeger.com/~erich/marygamb.html
- Reno Hilton http://www.sierra.net/Hilton/Reno/
- Virtual Las Vegas http://www.infi.net/vegas/vlv/
- Vegas.com Home Page http://www.vegas.com/
The gambling archive is intended to store stuff *useful* to rec.gamblers,
like the FAQ lists, blackjack card-counting information, poker statistics,
etc. It is not intended at this time to store all the daily drivel
- Q:I3 Where is the gambling archive?
- A:I3 (Abdul Jalib M'Hall)
The archive is accessible via anonymous ftp to
(18.104.22.168). (Type "ftp ftp.csua.berkeley.edu" or "ftp 22.214.171.124"
and then "anonymous" when it asks for the name, followed by your
email address when it asks for the password. Then "cd pub/rec.gambling".)
If you have some things you would like to contribute to the archive,
Gambler's Book Club has a vast selection of books on topics related to
gambling. They are located at 630 South 11th Street in Las Vegas.
- Q:I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
- A:I4 (Steve Jacobs, Mike Northam)
Gambler's Book Club
Las Vegas, NV 89127
(702) 382-7594 (FAX)
(800) 634-6243 (orders only)
99 N. Virginia St.
Reno, NV 89501
One of our rec.gamblers (Chuck Weinstock) has established relationships
with publishers of gambling books, newsletters, videos, and software
and offers their products at a discount
to rec.gamblers. Orders must be placed through Chuck Weinstock
(firstname.lastname@example.org). Contact him for a list of what is available,
and ordering information, or look for the ConJelCo Home Page at
http://www.conjelco.com on the
World Wide Web.
- Q:I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
- A:I5 (Chuck Weinstock)
- Q:I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?
- A:I6 (Martin Veneroso, John Murphy, Steve Jacobs)
- Horse Racing
- There is a mailing list for discussion of horse racing and handicapping.
If you are interested in joining us, send a note to
and be sure to include an Internet email address (i.e., a "@" address.).
- Also see the newsgroup alt.sport.horse-racing.
- Bay Area Poker List
- The ba-poker mailing list is just a bunch of folks, mostly located in the
San Francisco Bay Area, who like to read about poker as it is played in the
Bay Area, and a few who like to write about it. We discuss both home and
commercial (card room) poker, including who's doing what where, a smidgen
of strategy, a few tall tales, and very little flaming (although a couple
of battles have broken out in the past).
- A fair estimate of the traffic probably would be ten or twenty messages a
week, but they tend to be clumped around someone raising an issue. The
list as gone a couple of weeks without distributing any messages, although
that is becoming more rare as the number of subscribers climbs slowly --
we have about 150 now.
- To subscribe, send a message to email@example.com, with a message body of:
- SUBSCRIBE ba-poker
- or, for the digest version of the mailing list:
- SUBSCRIBE ba-poker-digest
- -- if you would like your message to be seen by a human rather than
an automated server, send it to firstname.lastname@example.org
(which goes to Martin Veneroso).
- Colorado Gaming Mailing List
- Send email to email@example.com
to join a mailing list for gaming in Colorado.
- The Foxwoods Maillist
- The Foxwoods Maillist consists of folks who like to
indulge in a little poker, BJ, craps, roulette, etc., etc.,
even Bingo(!) at their favorite cardroom/casino,... in this
case the Foxwoods Resort Casino located near Ledyard, CT. The
maillist is used to trade trip report, discuss issues of game
strategy, checkup on "ride-sharing", plan for get-togthers and
special events (e.g. NETS tourney's), cry about "bad-beats",
crow about those big wins, etc., etc. There are (as of
5/15/95) approximately 100 subscribers to the list, and not all
are located in the Boston/Providence/Hartford/NYC area (there
are even some CA rec.gamblers subscribed!).
A World Wide Web page is also available to FW Maillist
subscribers as well as to the rec.gambling community in
general, and contains information on "Where is Foxwoods?", "How
do you get there?", "What about the hotels and restaurants at
FW and in the surrounding area?", "What are the games, and the
comps policies?", Special Events, a "Who's Who", an email
archive, and a collection of FW trip reports. The URL for The
FW Maillist Homepage is:
All maillist administrivia (e.g. subscription requests,
"unsubscribes", etc.) should be sent to
firstname.lastname@example.org. To send mail to the approx.
100 folks currently subscribed to this maillist, send to
- Questions about hotels and restaurants are often posted to
rec.gambling.misc. Similar information about Las Vegas can be
found in the newsgroup
Section H: History of Rec.Gambling
The orginal RFD for rec.gambling was posted in mid 1989. alt.gambling
was created in August, 1989, by an over-enthusiastic netter who couldn't
wait for the voting. Meanwhile, the vote for rec.gambling was held, and
passed 189-41. The election results were announced on September 23, 1989,
and the group created one week later.
- Q:H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
- A:H1 (Matt Wilding, Steve Jacobs, Selim Guncer)
During the early years (roughly 1990 and 1991), blackjack and craps
were probably the most popular topics on rec.gambling. This was before
there was a FAQ, and much of the focus was on card counting and computer
simulations of blackjack games. Flame wars between blackjack players
and craps players were popular. There was virtually no discussion of
poker during this time. The first BARGE took place in Aug. 1991 (before
it was ever called BARGE), and the Presto!/Irwin legend emerged at that
time. The Frank Irwin Memorial Commode Ceremony also came from this BARGE
trip. There were perhaps a dozen rec.gamblers at the first BARGE. The
first rec.gambling FAQ was created late in 1991.
The first WRGPT was launched in early 1992, with Will Hyde acting as
dealer. Poker discussions gained in popularity, partly as a result
of this tournament. Traffic on rec.gambling probably averaged about
10 to 20 posts per day during this time.
A formal proposal to split rec.gambling we presented early in 1995,
and passed by popular vote. The new newsgroups were created on
June 5, 1995. The original rec.gambling group was superceded by
rec.gambling.misc, and was scheduled to be rmgroup'ed on Aug. 7,
(coincidently) right after BARGE '95.
[This section could use a lot of work -- any volunteers?]
WRGPT stands for "World Rec.Gambling.Poker Tournament". This is an annual
poker tournament played by email. The tournament usually begins in the
fall, and usually lasts many months, to the complete aggravation of some
of the players.
- Q:H2 What is WRGPT?
- A:H2 (Steve Jacobs)
WRGPT1 started early in 1992 with 30 players. WRGPT1 was dealt by hand,
with Will Hyde devoting much of his time to the task. Steve Jacobs won
the tournament by eliminating Ken Butler and Bharat Rao on the last hand
with K-T offsuit.
WRGPT2 attracted about 130 players, and began in the fall of 1992.
This tournament, and those that followed, were dealt by Ron Duursma's
excellent email poker server. Ed Baker took first place in this event,
coming from behind to eliminate Jeff Jennings. Roy Hashimoto was 3rd.
WRGPT3 attracted about 200 players, and began in the fall of 1993.
Roy Hashimoto won this event, becoming the second rec.gambler to win
both WRGPT and BARGE titles. Marco Westerweel placed second in this
even, and Kristofer Munn placed third, edging out fourth place
Ron Duursma (to whom we all owe much thanks for writing the mail
server that is used to deal WRGPT events).
WRGPT4 attracted 376 players, and was won Lee Jones, well known to
rec.gambling as the author of "Winning Low Limit Hold'em". Can Lee
win the BARGE '95 tournament to become the 3rd rec.gambler to win
WRGPT/BARGE tournaments back-to-back?
[This is pretty rough folks, anyone with fond BARGE memories? If so,
please send them in for inclusion in the r.g history FAQ. My apologies
if I've left out important details, or gotten some fact fixed up here.]
- Q:H3 What is BARGE?
- A:H3 (Steve Jacobs)
BARGE stands for "Big August Rec.Gambling Excursion". This is the
annual rec.gambling gathering, so far always in August (can you
imagine a worse time to go to Vegas?), but if we go some other month
we can change the "August" to "Annual" in order to preserve the acronym.
The first BARGE consisted of maybe a dozen people, mostly in Vegas
to attend SIGGRAPH '91 (well, at least that's how they got their
companies to pay the airfare). We met at the Frontier for breakfast,
and at Gambler's Book Club to check out the latest periodicals. Several
rec.gamblers pitched in to purchase a book to help launch Abdul
Jalib M'Hall's blackjack career.
BARGE 2 had more attendees, about 20 in all, and included meetings at
the Frontier, GBC, and a live poker tournament held in a hotel room.
The main gathering took place at the Frontier coffee shop, where about
a dozen rec.gamblers met for a midnight meal (thanks, Edmund). In
keeping with rec.gambling tradition, Steve Jacobs won the first live
BARGE poker tournament, becoming the first rec.gambler to win both an
WRGPT event and a BARGE event.
BARGE 3 had about 30 attendees, of which about 20 participated in the
live poker tournament held at the Rio. Special chips were created to
commemorate BARGE 3, and were sold through rec.gambling to raise a prize
fund (including a set of 300 chips as a trophy) for the winner of the
tournament. Roy Hashimoto, who flew to Vegas especially for the
tournament, took first place. Each attendee at BARGE 3 received a
special limited edition purple BARGE chip, which have becoming highly
prized collectors items.
BARGE 4 had about 90 attendees, of which 60 paid entry fees in advance
for the live poker tournament at the Luxor. A calcutta was held the
night before to auction off players from the poker tournament. Roy
Hashimoto designed some fabulous poker chips for the BARGE 4 trophy,
which went to Dave Hughes. Cash prizes were paid for 1st through 6th
place, with teddy bears going to Jeff Jennings for placing 7th and to
John Murphy for being the first player to bust out of the tournament.
This year a live blackjack
tournament was added to the agenda, attracting about 30 players and many
spectators to a high roller suite somewhere on the world famous Las Vegas
Strip. [Who won the BJ tournament? Who bought Dave Hughes to win the
Calcutta?] An informal gathering for pot-limit Texas Hold'em was held
later at the Luxor, and a bachelor party was held for Steve "Bozo"
Blackstock at a location which might cause him undo grief if it were
The early BARGE trips were mostly spontaneous events, with little
advance planning and consequently little advance notice, so if you
couldn't drop everything and fly to Vegas then you missed out. But,
such spontaneity isn't too practical for large groups, so now we try
to plan things a bit more. An email list has been created to help
those interested in BARGE to plan for the trip. To be added to the
mailing list, send email to BARGEemail@example.com. Messages to
the mailing list itself should be sent to BARGE@vmark.com.
for the latest information on BARGE 95.
IRC poker is a real-time network poker game that allows people from around
the world to play poker with each other via the internet. The stakes are
imaginary "etherbucks". For more information about IRC Poker, see the
- Q:H4 What is IRC Poker?
- A:H4 (Steve Jacobs)
rec.gambling FAQ index